Frank Vignola: Driving Passion
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If you want to see great guitar playing there are two things I recommend. First is Les Paul at the Irridium, He is 92, and he is. Well Les Paul, anytime anyone is in New York, they should make and effort to see him.
And right up the street at a French restaurant called Le Madeleine 33rd and 9th avenue, Gene Bertoncini, plays guitar every Monday night, I think he’s one of the greatest living guitarists and he’s 72.
We caught up with Frank Vignola just after he finished a new album in honor of Lionel Hampton’s 100th birthday.
We spoke to him about talent, drive and the dangers of falling in love.
Tell me about your guitar?
It was made by Dave Benedetto. He is the preeminent arch-top guitar builder of our day.
I read somewhere, it took him two years to build it.
It took him about three months when he started building it. But, it was two years from when he said ‘I have an idea for a guitar for you’.
What is it like playing a guitar like that?
Well, I think it is exhilarating. Not to get too Zen or anything like that, but there is nothing like playing your own instrument.
And when a builder of that quality knows your style, knows your playing, knows what sound you are going for, and then builds the instrument that he thinks you would sound good playing. Such a camaraderie can’t even be put into words.
I was talking to a winemaker last week and he said that when you are striving for excellence you get to experience the immense privilege of working with others who are doing the same.
And experts in their field.
We just did a tribute to Lionel Hampton record. And we got to work with Janis Siegel from the Manhattan Transfer. Jane Monheit, John Bunch, who is 86 years old now; he has such a magic touch; Warren Vache, and Ken Peplowski on the clarinet.
It’s such a privilege to be working with great artists.
We did it at Tony Bennet’s studio in New Jersey, and his son Dave Bennet—who’s been engineering jazz for the last 30 years—was the engineer. He was so professional and so good at what he did. I couldn’t believe how quickly things were going down, how good it sounded and just his professionalism.
I play ice hockey—at a very low level—but when a play or a pass works there is this profound emotional connection. When you are playing at such a high level, is there a danger of falling in love with everyone?
Yes. I don’t know if it’s a danger.
With this particular record I’ve known these people for the last 20 –25 years. And, I feel comfortable with the music because that is the music that I grew up with, Benny Goodman, Lionel Hampton, Django Reinhardt, and real traditional jazz.
So I wasn’t nervous at all. Some times when I heard the music coming out, it gave me goose bumps, it’s like that love thing you were talking about.
Whenever I’m watching jazz musicians play there seems to be such a joy, in what they are doing.
And there should be. When there’s not, then something’s wrong. I don’t do all the traveling I do, to get on the stage in front of seven hundred people, and not have fun.
What goes wrong when it becomes no longer fun?
Well things run their course. When you first meet a musician you have great camaraderie. You are excited about playing together. Hanging out.
Falling in love?
Yeah. Right. And then the years go on. And it’s the little things.
The toilet seat has been left up?
Right. Well not exactly that. Musically. You envision a certain style of music. And one guy might not like that direction. But, he goes along with it. Things like that start to happen
There are those occasions, like the Modern Jazz Quartet, which has been around for fifty years. Basically touring all the time. I happened to play with John Lewis a year before he died. And I got to know him a little more personally. And, these guys loved one another. They were so into playing and hanging out.
Same with the Manhattan Transfer. Thirty-five years they’ve been together.
So what goes right when that happens? What does it take to play like that?
I think that has to do with the positiveness of the band. I have never been in a band that’s been miserable together and the audience has given a standing ovation. On the other side I’ve been involved with musicians who weren’t nearly as good as other musicians but the attitude was right and something clicked and the audience just loved it.
Kind of like a hockey team. Sometimes you get a very talented team but they can’t win games.
They can’t play together.
That’s the thing. Then you have the team that has the drive. They practice. They play together. No egos involved. And those are the teams that win the game.
Like the New York Giant’s football team. They aren’t a good football team, but they are in the Super Bowl.
I don’t have to ask you who you are rooting for.
You know, I’m not a huge football fan. I love watching anything at a very high level, whether it’s dance or a great painting, or a great team in sports or listening to great music.
What is it? An appreciation for someone else’s passion?
Absolutely, I’ve spent my whole life since I was six years old, practicing, playing, learning songs, studying privately, making no money on gigs in order so I could pay musicians that I wanted to work with because they were much better than I was.
That’s why I appreciate talent because it’s not just raw talent. It’s developing that talent. It’s having the right attitude to see that talent through, which takes a lot of patience.
With the Jazz Masters it’s a certain beat they have. A certain rhythm that they have to their playing.
And, you’ve said that learning from the Masters is key?
That’s the best experience anyone can get – especially in jazz. When I was growing up and I had the opportunity to play with Les Paul or Bucky Pizzareli or Lionel Hampton or even my peers who were amazingly talented and build their own careers. There is nothing better than to get in a position where they are the weakest link—with the masters.
What is that extra thing that the masters bring?
After you feel what that is like, to play with someone at that level, it’s something you never forget. And now you know what it feels like.
What does it feel like?
With the Jazz masters it’s a certain beat they have. A certain rhythm that they have to their playing. Also a sense of melody.
All of my favorite players have been melody players. They know the melody to the songs they are playing, and not just looking at the chord progression and playing theories.
I think it’s the way it’s taught. The way music and jazz is taught.
How should it be taught?
On the bandstand, five days a week. Unfortunately, there isn’t an abundance of work like that. You do have to get out there and create your own work.
I’ve always been a go-getter. People who are born musician they just do it. They got out and find work.
And, you have to be prepared for a lot of criticism. A lot of no’s. You know how many people I have called up for work at their clubs or their concerts, and gotten a no, or no return phone calls? Now it’s no returned emails. It’s really amazing.
But you figure out how to keep going from major disappointments?
Yes. I was at Radio City Music Hall playing with Chet Atkins when I was 19. I grew up with Chet Atkins. It was like a god being there to me.
And we played the first number in rehearsal and he said “why don’t you lay out for this number, it’s a little to loud.”
I said, ‘wow, maybe it was too loud’, because I was really trying too hard. And, though I was upset, I made sure I went up to after the performance and said “thank you very much, it was a pleasure meeting you.” And I chalked it up to experience.
I probably even said, “what a jerk.” I had just finished Radio City Music Hall, four nights, sold out shows with Garrison Keelor’s Prairie Home Companion. It was a wonderful experience. What, I’m going to let this guy ruin my great experience? Naw. But, that’s me.
But, I always remembered that. I always started quietly. I’d rather have someone—say ‘turn it up a little, I want to hear what you are doing’. And no one ever said that to me again. So I learned something from Chet.
Who should we talk to next?
Bucky Pizzerelli who is 82 now. There aren’t too many of the originators of the music that I love around anymore. And he’s one of them, as far as guitar and jazz. He was there at the beginning, and he’s here today working 200 dates a year.
There is something in the war generation something we will never see again
That’s absolutely right. And such an appreciation for life, and no one has a better attitude than Bucky Pizzerelli.
