John Jorgenson: Bridges to Spontaneity
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I love wine. I play at a big festival every year – or every other year, in Italy in a village called Suave.
I really like Organic wines. Lolonis. It’s a vineyard in California, they use ladybugs for their pesticide control.
On food
In Los Angeles, I always go to Hugo’s. It’s on Santa Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood. And they’ll usually have a nice organic wine or two.
And Charlie Trotter’s. I’ve only eaten there once but it was amazing.
We spoke to John Jorgenson, a world renown gypsy-jazz guitar master.
John, who embodied the spirit of Django Reinhardt for the 2004 movie Head in the Clouds, discussed creative limitations, perpetual inspiration and cultural understanding.
Your new record is called Ultraspontane?
It means ‘very spontaneous’. I had a song that I was having trouble getting a title for. And, I have two friends that play with us when we are in Europe who are from Luxembourg—twin female trombone players. I heard them use that word.
You were trying to create something new with album, with the orchestration. We were talking with Jeff Coffin about how, with the spirit of jazz, it was continually revolutionary.
Yeah, definitely that’s true. In some forms of jazz, more traditional styles, people want to recreate it as it was done in the 20’s or the 30’s or the 40’s. And, I can really appreciate that.
But, my whole goal is to broaden that repertoire. The music that I’m playing, the style, was really born in the 30’s and 40’s. That is when it was the most popular. It had a bit of resurgence in the 70’s and it’s been growing steadily since then. But, it’s a little bit under ground, especially in America.
And that is the gypsy jazz?
In Europe it’s more part of the culture and more prevalent. In America it’s been under the radar for a while. My goal is to get that out to the people, and to add more music to that repertoire—new songs, new stylistic elements.
So, that’s it not a re-creation of what was done so long ago, it’s a living, breathing, evolving musical style.
What is the difference between producing a very good re-creation, and producing something new, adding something to the history of gypsy jazz?
I really respect the tradition a lot, but I also grew up playing classical music, and rock music, soul music and funk; all these influences that I can’t help but have within myself. And those they tend to come out in my writing. They tend to fuse with the traditional gypsy jazz and pretty soon you’ve got something that’s very different sounding.
But, it can still appeal to the people that like traditional stuff. And, it will also appeal to people that maybe don’t know anything about the traditional stuff. That’s my goal—to push that envelope.
With all these different influences and inspirations how did you get into gypsy jazz?
I just heard the music of Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grapelli, in 1979. I bought a vinyl LP and couldn’t believe how great it sounded. I’d already been playing the guitar for ten or fifteen years at that point but had never heard anyone play it the way he played it.
I started learning it and studying it from that point on. But for most of the time I made a living playing, other styles of music. I toured with Elton John for six years, I played in Dixieland bands, and rock bands, and bluegrass bands.
But all that time my favorite music was gypsy jazz. I’d been playing it all along. The interest level has risen dramatically over the last six years. Enough, in the United States, I can play this music as full time thing, which is thrilling for me.
When you are playing a musical style that is so underground, how do you stay inspired?
Over the years, I have sought out a few different friends that were into it, so we could inspire each other. Also I would go over to Europe to festivals there. That was really inspiring.
I would see people jamming, hanging out and playing gypsy jazz. So, that was really inspiring. And every time I came back from there, I would be re-inspired, a lot, to just go for it.
Do you think that some people have a greater capacity to be inspired? Do you think there is a way of living that opens you up to inspiration?
Maybe. I hadn’t ever thought of it that way. I just love the sound of music so much. Especially the guitar and all the different sounds it can make. I almost feel that I could have four or five different life times and still never get enough of it.
I love flamenco music. But in order to play it I would have to stop everything I’m doing and completely dedicate myself to playing just that style music. And I don’t really have time to do that—that would be another lifetime.
I’m always inspired by great music, and great art of all kinds. I think it feeds on itself, too. Once you are inspired and you try to go after it, you get something from that. I get personal energy from composing a piece and playing it and then that leads me to the next thing. It’s self-perpetuating.
... if you really go for it with all your heart and soul, you will not fail. There is no chance of any failure.
Where does that confidence “to go after it” come from?
I feel like I have something to say musically and philosophically too. And, I will stand behind it, and I don’t mind saying it.
What is it? What are you saying?
In an overall sense, I feel my philosophy is to really go for it. And, if you really go for it with all your heart and soul, you will not fail. There is no chance of any failure.
You may not do exactly what you set your mind to, or it may not happen in the time period that you think, but it’s going to take you somewhere. You are going to learn something else, and you are going to be inspired by that. And it goes on and on.
The other thing I think about is music is such a bridge for all different cultures. I first get interested in the music and then I get interested the people that play the music and how they live.
I believe once you understand someone else’s culture you are naturally more tolerant, more apt to get along with that person.
A lot of people have negative concepts about gypsies. If I get people interested in the music, maybe too they will be a little more open-minded.
A perfect example is America in the 60’s. The musical artist really helped integration a lot. You would see a completely mixed audience watching James Brown or Sly and the Family Stone, the Supremes, Nat King Cole. I think that really helps break down barriers and create understanding.
What would you recommend to young musicians starting out?
First off, is listen as much as possible, and look into as many different artist. And zone in on a few. Take one of their solos and learn it. Figure out why they are playing those notes, and figures and phrases over the chord changes. That’s a really good way to learn your own vocabulary.
First you have to learn words and phrases from other people and eventually you string them together, and you refine them and create your own style.
How do you know it’s your moment to add a bit to the conversation?
It’s very much in a normal conversation. We are speaking together and if I’m in the middle of talking than you don’t usually interrupt me. It’s the same with music. You listen to the person.
I think it’s good for young players to start immediately improvising. What I do sometimes, to expand their mind is say, “Here is three notes. I want you to play them with as much variety, different rhythm, different dynamics, different stylings.”
That will force them to be creative, without going into arpeggios or scales or anything like that. “Here’s your three notes. Give me something with that.”
I think it was T. S. Eliott that talked about creativity coming from limitations.
I totally believe it does. Limitation is maybe a negative connotation. I would say boundaries.
So back to the moment of creation and improvisation. Do boundaries help then?
You have chords and a rhythm you are playing over, within that you have a lot of leeway. But then the notes that you choose—are they consonant or dissonant to the chord? The dissonant notes for tension and the consonant notes for release. Hopefully you aren’t all in consonant or dissonant, because it would be like nothing ever resolved—no sentence ever finishes.
Who would recommend we talk to next?
Frank Vignola. He’s a New York based Jazz guitarist, who’s done a lot of stuff with Bucky Pizzarelli.